Coronavirus Hysteria

[Jesse]

You do realize the FDA exists to protect big pharma interests, right?

Since I riffed on government corruption in the United States earlier in this thread, and since a lot of people don't know the extent of it, I thought I'd mention what's happening with the FDA and Pfizer vaccine data.

TL;DR: The FDA took less than three months to approve the vaccine but claims it needs 55 years to review their data used to make that decision before it can be released.

From November 2021: (https://www.reuters.com/legal/gover...ss-foia-request-over-vaccine-data-2021-11-18/)

(Reuters) - Freedom of Information Act requests are rarely speedy, but when a group of scientists asked the federal government to share the data it relied upon in licensing Pfizer’s COVID-19 vaccine, the response went beyond typical bureaucratic foot-dragging.

As in 55 years beyond.

That’s how long the Food & Drug Administration in court papers this week proposes it should be given to review and release the trove of vaccine-related documents responsive to the request. If a federal judge in Texas agrees, plaintiffs Public Health and Medical Professionals for Transparency can expect to see the full record in 2076.

Also relevant: (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/c...e-pfizer-vaccine-data-for-55-years/ar-AAQUufd)

The agency this week told a court that it had found about 329,000 pages of responsive information, but that it would like to release just 500 pages each month — giving it until 2076 to complete the request. The FDA took just more than 10 weeks, by contrast, to review the data before it approved the vaccine.

This is currently being challenged in court: (https://www.biospace.com/article/no...-fda-records-of-pfizer-vaccine-authorization/)

The ruling follows a lawsuit filed by a nonprofit organization called Public Health and Medical Professionals for Transparency, which was formed to promote transparency of the COVID-19 vaccine data used to secure Emergency Use Authorization. In its lawsuit, which was filed in September, the PHMPT claimed that under federal law, the data and information in the biological product file that was submitted to the FDA are expected to be available for public disclosure unless extraordinary circumstances have been shown. The judge presiding over the lawsuit agreed.

U.S. District Judge Mark Pittman found that the Freedom of Information Act filed by PHMPT “is of paramount public importance.” The judge’s ruling demands that the FDA make the data publicly available within a span of eight months.

We'll see how it goes, but I don't have a lot of faith that we're going to get anything but pages full of redactions at the most.

 

[Stewy]

Huge respect for actual doctors refusing the mandates.
Not sure I've seen someone explain the whole thing so well. This is a must see:

 

[MinstrelJunkie]

Huge respect for actual doctors refusing the mandates.
Not sure I've seen someone explain the whole thing so well. This is a must see:

Looks like an interesting source for discussion. Watched most of it, here's some notes:

• A key reason why he isn't vaccinated is he got covid early on and was asymptomatic. He then had antibodies to protect against further infection. Esimates he'd be fine with covid and knows his risk profile.
• There was some time when he didn't know he had antibodies, and wasn't getting vaccinated. He describes this as taking some time to look at how any side effects played out on a large scale because the benefit to him as an individual was quite small (young and healthy).
• Thinks that the risk of any serious vaccine side effects is very small
• About 70% of patients (mostly older/obese/vulnerable) who come into his ICU are unvaccinated. The 30% who come in and are vaccinated often have health complications that prevented the vaccine from presenting a good enough response.
• "Healthy 60 year old better off than almost any obese person" - interesting
• He knew (knows of?) 3 people who died due to vaccine complications (myocarditis). Acknowledges it's statistically very small but as a personal issue it impacted him. (Statistics below in Note 1)
• When asked about vaccines in general: "Undoubtedly the vaccines have made a significant difference". "The high level of vaccination we've achieved has been of great benefit"
• When asked if he would only encourage those with health issues or older to take the vaccine (and not to younger healthier people), he said he'd "probably offer it to all adults if I was in charge.".
• He's known because he's against mandating NHS staff to be covid vaccinated. Makes argument that HepB vaccine mandate was brought in after 20yrs and more studies, also that it was a Trust and not a Law. States that it's not fair for 10% of the NHS to be fired (fair point).
• Instead of getting the vaccine he'd move to Wales/Scotland/NI where he could keep his job. Doesn't comment on exactly why, but seems to be more in solidarity with the other workers than out of fear of side effects. Not surprisingly this was taken out of context for the video thumbnail.
• On Omnicron, "data on vaccination suggested that not vaccines are making a big impact". Says Oxford Vaccine antibodies wear off after 2-3months. Says that you'd need vaccine every 4-6 weeks (Note 2) to keep that curve up.
• Would prefer a calculation showing people their chance of death from covid vs their chance of death from the vaccine. Let them decide for themselves (fair point, but Note 3)

Notes

1. 753 reported deaths of myocarditis or pericarditis within 28 days of vaccination from 38.6 million people (0.002%).
2. This is interesting, but he doesn't state if this applies to other vaccines. Since he's specifically mentioning Oxford, I'm guessing the others have better. Also doesn't cover the effectiveness of Omnicron-targetting boosters (referenced in my previous comment).
3. Also a fair point. Death values for young people are hard to find, so I'll compare hospitalisations using this calculator. From the nature study, there's a 0.008% chance of hospitalization from myocarditis / pericarditis in 28 days after vaccination. Compared to a 1.6% chance of hospitalization for a healthy 25 year old male who catches covid. So you have a 200x higher chance of being hospitalized with covid. I tried to compare unvaccinated hospitalisation rates of the last week, but it's difficult because 90% of people are vaccinated yet only overall cases are reported.

Thanks for sharing, it's nice to debate a real source and not false claims from misunderstood data (or claims with no proof at all).

I understand his choice not to get the vaccine having had covid and knowing he has antibodies. It's made me think twice about supporting vaccine mandates around jobs, and that we need to make sure exceptions are possible.

My main criticism is that he never got to speak on the impact of being unvaccinated on the chance to spread covid to others. It's my main argument for young people getting vaccines. He was initially going to comment on this but the conversation sadly led somewhere else. My argument is that vaccines are proven to increase resistance and shorten the period of time we are contagious. Thereby slowing the spread. Was a shame he didn't comment on it.

I think it's a fair point on the 'death chance calculator', but I believe even in healthy people covid would always pose a higher threat than 0.008%. But I might be wrong. That said, it would need to account for the greater danger unvaccinated people pose to those around them, due to experiencing more symptoms and being more infectious.

Interviewer obviously had a bias but kept the whole discussion very fair. Honestly refreshing to see some good discussion from that side. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Jesse]

Also doesn't cover the effectiveness of Omnicron-targetting boosters

My understanding is that they won't be available for at least another month or two, and data so far indicates omicron will largely be a non-issue by then.

From about a week ago: (https://www.nbcnews.com/health/heal...iant-specific-covid-vaccine-booster-rcna11598)

Pfizer-BioNTech, Moderna and Johnson & Johnson said Monday that they are continuing to develop updated Covid-19 vaccine booster shots that target the omicron variant, which is still spreading rapidly across the globe.

The current versions of the Covid boosters available in the U.S. — the Pfizer and Moderna mRNA formulas and the Johnson & Johnson adenovirus version — are still formulated to target the original form of the virus first identified in China in late 2019.

Pfizer plans to begin human studies for an omicron-specific booster in January, and if all goes as planned, the shot could be ready by March, the company said in a statement to NBC News. Pfizer said it expects to provide an "update" on the next steps for its modified shot later this month.

Bold mine for the lols.

 

[Stewy]

Looks like an interesting source for discussion.

Funny you got held up on all these points and missed the core message.

Unless you're elderly and unhealthy, there's really no reason to panic. It's a cold, most people are asymptomatic, and once you get it, your antibodies last. And even when your antibodies get back to baseline... it's just a cold.

The way I see it, you're blindly following science that fits your narrative, and using very little discernment to have an open perspective on all this. I get that panic's the reason you're like this, but it's embarassing for a grown up adult to get to such a point of panic for a cold.

You might be an elderly and unhealthy person, in which case I apologize, but I'm not. A cold might be dangerous for an 86 year old man with serious health issues, but it isn't dangerous for someone like myself.

When I see you insisting that everyone should "enroll" into these vaccine programs, it's like saying "red meat is bad for an 86 year old man with heart issues, so we should ban red meat for everyone".

On a different note, it's interesting to read the comments on youtube regarding this video. Here are just a few random ones:

"Dr Steve James, thank you for being brave enough to say what you believe. It is fundamental to keeping us free. I am fully vaccinated."

"We need more doctors like him. Understanding, compassionate and knowledgeable"

"I’d like a doctor like this doctor. Bravo for his values."

"A doctor that actually took his oath seriously. Well done"

"Where there is risk, there MUST be choice. The amount of risk from the jabs is irrelevant, as it may be impossible to properly qualify for each individual. We're so fundamentally different on a genetic and molecular level it's madness to insist the jabs are perfectly safe. We know otherwise. Violating the principles of informed consent free of coercion is medically unethical."

"Thank you for interviewing this doctor who is very logical and ethical. The people I know who are unvaxxed have put a lot of thought into their decision rather than acting on emotions. Threats to take away our livelihood only make us feel more confident in our choice."

"As a physician i salute your courage. I hope more of our colleagues to come forward and stop this nonsense."

"As a practicing nurse in the US, it was very uplifting to see the tangle of arguments combed through so thoroughly and respectfully."

""I'm a human being more than I am a worker" - absolutely agree. So nice to listen to a balanced and intelligent interview. We need more like Dr James."

"Treating people like intelligent beings, capable of making intelligent decisions for themselves. What a concept. Thank you Dr. Steve James!"

"From 1 healthcare practitioner to another, i'm with this doctor."

"Brilliant interview. I'm a vaccinated nurse but 100% on the side of Dr Steve James and his unvaccinated colleagues. I couldn't agree more with everything he said."

"Any one-size-fits-all approach to medicine is wrong. Full stop. This man is absolutely right"

"The fact that they don't recognize natural immunity shows this is not in the interest of our health. We should all resist this level of control."

 

[MinstrelJunkie]

Funny you got held up on all these points and missed the core message.

Unless you're elderly and unhealthy, there's really no reason to panic. It's a cold, most people are asymptomatic, and once you get it, your antibodies last. And even when your antibodies get back to baseline... it's just a cold.

The way I see it, you're blindly following science that fits your narrative, and using very little discernment to have an open perspective on all this. I get that panic's the reason you're like this, but it's embarassing for a grown up adult to get to such a point of panic for a cold.

You might be an elderly and unhealthy person, in which case I apologize, but I'm not. A cold might be dangerous for an 86 year old man with serious health issues, but it isn't dangerous for someone like myself.

When I see you insisting that everyone should "enroll" into these vaccine programs, it's like saying "red meat is bad for an 86 year old man with heart issues, so we should ban red meat for everyone".

You say your comments aren't personal, yet you word things like it is. "Funny you got held up on" and "it's embarrassing for a grown up adult".

I don't think you can summarise a >30minute discussion into one sentence. They covered a lot, which you seem to not be commenting on (did you watch it?). Nothing I say is based on panic (30yo male in good health and fitness), it's based on reasoning (which is why everything is always backed with sources, I wish you'd do the same). I'm happy to be proven wrong - but instead of debating me you've squashed the first real source into a one-sentence summary, and instead are focusing on YouTube comments.

Maybe it's "just a cold" if you're vaccinated and young. If you're unvaccinated, or if you're older/vulnerable/obese, it's far from a cold. I'd refer you back to earlier sources but you don't seem to read them. Remember that hospitalization/mortality rates seem low due to high rates of vaccinated people. It's hard to see the impact on only unvaccinated, but judging by general studies the risk is magnitudes more than the risk of vaccine issues.

The key issue also isn't just your own risk, but your increased likelihood to spread covid to others when you do catch it. Vaccinations greatly reduce the chance you'll get or spread covid to vulnerable people. Like I said he unfortunately didn't comment on that, because it's the main point I'd like to see his defense on.

 

[Jesse]

Let's see where we are in the United States compared to South Africa at this point.

It looks like cases started shooting up around November 23 in South Africa and around December 23 or so in the United States. If we follow a similar curve, then we will be hitting the peak this weekend and early next week. We're also getting a bit of a snowstorm this weekend on the East Coast, but I don't know how much that would affect things at this point.

Pretty much everyone I know has it, and I live in a fairly rural area. It's kind of crazy how quickly and easily this variant has spread.

Just for an update on omicron numbers for anyone interested in the US vs. South Africa trends. The idea seems to be holding that we were looking at the peak this weekend in the United States based on us trailing South Africa's trend by about 30 days or so. I've got Sunday selected on the following graph:

For those interested, here is the South African data for new cases over the past six months. You can see the delta wave die down from late August through early October before omicron shot things up in late November.

In other news...

From The Telegraph, archived here to avoid paywalls (https://archive.ph/jhHH6):

High Covid death rates skewed by people who died from other causes, admits Sajid Javid

Health Secretary reveals daily government figures might be unreliable as ONS data show fewer deaths registered to Covid

So that's fun.

 

[Jesse]

We've got a pretty good trend downward going now. We appear to be following South Africa's trend by about 30 days or so. I've selected the peak for the US and for SA on the graphs for the sake of easy visual comparison.

Roughly speaking, it's looking like we'll be at around 25 percent of the peak total cases around Valentine's Day (February 14), more or less.

 

[bernard]

I have had covid for the last week if anyone is interested.

I had exactly 2 days of low grade fever, not going above 102 fahrenheit / 39 celcius.

Felt tired and "uncomfortable" for those 2 days.

From day 3 to day 5 (today), I had no fever and had no respiratory issues at all, in fact I walked 15km yesterday.

I do have a nasty sore throat that is a real bitch and very unpleasant that is going on day 2 here. That one I really could have done without. It's not that I feel sick with it, but it fucking hurts.

Overall, this has been a very mild disease to me, much less potent than the flu, with the exception of that weird strep-like throat.

 

[Ryuzaki]

@bernard, today is "Day 19" for me. I had the same experience. 2 days of "wow this sucks" levels of fever, aches, fatigue. By Days 3 and 4 the severity of those symptoms were cut in half. And from that point till about Day 14 I was having around a 101 fever, not too bad fatigue, but disrupted sleep was causing me to feel tired and sleepy. Aches were gone by Day 5.

Zero respiratory stuff but I could feel that it was replicating in my throat. It felt inflamed for the first week or so and then that went away and it become a sore throat only really when I swallowed or hadn't had enough water. I lost about a pound a day for 8 days and then the following 8 days I gained a pound a day back. It was from me sweating gallons every night in bed, waking up sopping wet.

But I'd say around Day 8 to 10, some time in there, it felt like the left side on just one spot of my throat became an open lesion or something. It felt like razor blades in there, and that lasted about 5 days. I can still feel it at like a 5% intensity. They say Omircon replicates in the throat and I'd say that's right on the money and that it really does a number to the tissue in there.

 

[bernard]

It felt like razor blades in there

Yep, that's what it feels like.

Have you tried some of the househould methods?

Tea with honey?

Gargle lukewarm saltwater?

Apple cidar vinegar solution?

Mega dose vit c?

I feel like the tea works and Ibuprophene is the best for getting that imflammation down.

Sounds like you have it pretty bad with the lingering around though.

 

[Jesse]

@bernard, today is "Day 19" for me. I had the same experience. 2 days of "wow this sucks" levels of fever, aches, fatigue. By Days 3 and 4 the severity of those symptoms were cut in half. And from that point till about Day 14 I was having around a 101 fever, not too bad fatigue, but disrupted sleep was causing me to feel tired and sleepy. Aches were gone by Day 5.

Zero respiratory stuff but I could feel that it was replicating in my throat. It felt inflamed for the first week or so and then that went away and it become a sore throat only really when I swallowed or hadn't had enough water. I lost about a pound a day for 8 days and then the following 8 days I gained a pound a day back. It was from me sweating gallons every night in bed, waking up sopping wet.

But I'd say around Day 8 to 10, some time in there, it felt like the left side on just one spot of my throat became an open lesion or something. It felt like razor blades in there, and that lasted about 5 days. I can still feel it at like a 5% intensity. They say Omircon replicates in the throat and I'd say that's right on the money and that it really does a number to the tissue in there.

I had it in late November/early December, and this was pretty much my experience as well. The fatigue and the inability to sleep well seems to be the most difficult part for most otherwise productive people from what I've seen.

I'm about two months past, and my sleep still isn't back to normal yet. I have a harder time falling asleep unless I take something for it, and I wake up early and tired without being able to fall back asleep.

Weirdly enough, I've been more productive the past two months than I probably have been in my life, so not sure what to think about that.

 

[harrytwatter]

This all seems to be unraveling now which is exciting. My biggest fear now is that those complicit will whitewash the entire event and we'll avoid the necessary structural changes to prevent such things in the future.

 

[Jesse]

The New Cases Decline Continues in the United States

The New Omicron Variant That's Going to Take Over the World or Something

Source: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/2/4/what-we-know-about-the-covid-19-omicron-subvariant

Some early studies found the BA.2 subvariant, which has been detected in dozens of countries, to be more transmissible than the original Omicron strain.

The strain is being closely watched in countries including Denmark, India and Nepal where it has become dominant, according to the World Health Organization (WHO).

I decided to look at the data for Denmark, India, Nepal and South Africa where this new omicron variant has been detected and called the "dominant" variant according to the World Health Organization:

Note that other countries lag behind South Africa's timeline because that's where the omicron variant was originally found and where it originally blew up at.

Feel free to draw your own conclusions about this newest variant, but I have to wonder how much mainstream media is going to suffer when neither Trump nor Covid are powering the 24/7 news cycle.

 

[contract]

Tested positive, no jabs. All controlled with basic OTC medicine.

Dry/sore throat.
Runny nose.
Very minor cough.
Loss of appetite.

Same symptoms as others who are jabbed multiple times.

 

[CCarter]

This summer, just when you thought it was safe to enter waters again, a new apex predator appears:

"Son of Omicron"

Research reveals scary new details about sub-variant dubbed ‘Son of Omicron’

"Just as fears surrounding the Covid pandemic were beginning to ease, alarming new research has shed troubling light on a sub-variant."

The study, which is yet to be peer-reviewed, suggested BA.2 spread faster and caused more serious illness than Omicron.

[..]

Scientists involved in the new study also noted that hamsters infected with both Omicron and Son of Omicron became more ill with the latter, and recorded worse lung function, with tissue samples revealing greater damage to the lungs of animals with BA.2.

Dr Daniel Rhoads, section head of microbiology at the Cleveland Clinic in Ohio, told CNN that while he did not participate in the latest BA.2 study, it appeared to be more concerning than Omicron.

“It might be, from a human’s perspective, a worse virus than BA.1 and might be able to transmit better and cause worse disease,” Dr Rhoads said.

Source: ‘Son of Omicron’​

--

Guys... this time it's serious!

At a certain point, that's enough.

 

[contract]

Moderna CEO is cashing out...

 

[CCarter]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1495079817401749507

Well who could have seen this coming... After decades of being told not to trust pharmaceutical companies, all of a sudden they are our friends and the "good guys".

OKAY.

 

[CCarter]

Biden, 79, is fully vaccinated, after getting two doses of the Pfizer coronavirus vaccine shortly before taking office, a first booster shot in September and an additional dose March 30.

Source: Biden tests positive for COVID-19, has ‘very mild symptoms’​

I'm not sure these people are using the word "Vaccinated" correctly... I'm vaccinated against smallpox, therefore I cannot get smallpox. That's how the word was used my whole life.

But in this new ClownWorld they just decided to change the definition of the word "vaccinated". And that's THAT right?

This is similar to Orwell's 1984 where they started changing words to fit the political agenda.

If you don't understand how that's double-plus-ungood than you're already in trouble.

 

[mj22]

I am already dead bro, i am already dead.... haha. I seen that article earlier and laughed and thought something similar lolz.

 

[Jesse]

Do we need a separate thread for monkeypox, or do we want to open that can of worms for discussion?

 

[bernard]

Do we need a separate thread for monkeypox, or do we want to open that can of worms for discussion?

It mostly affects gays so let's keep the discussion at Wickedfire.

(disclaimer: the above is not meant to be homophobic)

 

[CCarter]

affects gays so let's keep the discussion at Wickedfire

Great job! Now we're cancelled by the SJWs!!

 

[Jesse]

My bad.

 

[illmasterj]

So many missed opportunities for Likes in the Water Cooler.