Coronavirus Hysteria

[RickJordan]

You all ain't even ready for this one...

My son is in the Army, stationed in Poland atm.

Someone in his unit he is friends with told him yesterday that he has the corona virus.

My son was pretty nervous to say the least. He talked to him more about it and ended up asking things like how he felt, where he thought he got it, how the test went, etc.

The other guy said, "The doctor didn't want to test me, said it would be a waste of a test".

No one else in his unit has it AND these people haven't been allowed to go into Poland, visit, do work, or anything for 4 weeks now because of the "pandemic". So why would this test have been a waste? They haven't been allowed to do or go anywhere for longer than the incubation period.

WTF, yeah..... That is what is going on here and in other countries folks.

Yeah.. just more proof of what I have been saying all along in this thread about blind trust in authority. This PFC blindly trust his doctor, the doctor blindly trust whoever is speaking into his ear, etc.

This guy has corona but no test was given. Not because the test isn't available, but because they didn't want to waste one. So how does anyone know he really has COVID-19 if no test are getting implemented?

And with that, I'm going on self ban again for the next week until Saturday so I can put in work. See you all next weekend.

.

The Army has no problem wasting bullets just to match invoices to secure funding.

It’s weird they wouldn’t want to do tests on something like this. That’s a free contract to give away.
The military in general has been handling this very strangely.

 

[Philip J. Fry]

Merkle is an example of what good Leadership is during a Crisis. Trump is not.

In this article ( https://dnyuz.com/2020/04/04/a-german-exception-why-the-countrys-coronavirus-death-rate-is-low/ ), it explains how German hospitals started developing a test for COVID-19 in January, way before the first case appeared in Germany. When it did appear, a month later, the hospitals already had tests stockpiled. Angela Merkle gave her country calm, rational, persistent messages on the severity of COVID-19 and their need to take it seriously. The result is a lower mortality rate in Germany.

What did Trump do? He told people to keep on living life as normal as it'll be good for the market, which would be good for profits. He denied the severity of COVID-19 and, when it finally came to the US, he failed to distribute PPE and ventilators to the states (https://www.vox.com/2020/4/5/21208802/coronavirus-trump-ventilators-masks-march). He keeps on sending messages stating that the pandemic will be over soon. This is just naive optimism and not what people need to hear. This causes the US to have a higher mortality rate. Many more lives will die due to his ignorance.

Don't be like Trump. Be like Merkle. Trust science, create trust in your organization and leadership, remain calm, keep your message regular, and lead your people. Trump places more importance on economics than people. That's wrong and immoral. Germany did a good job preparing for this pandemic. They had their focus right: the importance is the people. Take care of people.

 

[Jared]

 

[cobblepot]

I'm suprised im the first person to bring this up, who is behind this for profit conspiracy some random make money online blogger or the big telecommunications companies who did not want to spend a lot of money so soon to upgrade their facilities?

thoughts?

 

[Potatoe]

woke and based

 

[RickJordan]

The people burning the towers down are why we can’t have shit.

 

[Jared]

The ventilator drama is made-up left-wing bullshit, which is what we've come to expect from propaganda outlets like Vox. Anyone who continues to trust them as a news source will remain ignorant.

Coronavirus Live Updates: Boris Johnson Moved to Intensive Care and the U.S. Death Toll Surpasses 10,000 - New York Times

“There is no hospital that needs ventilators that doesn’t have ventilators, there is no hospital that needs PPE [personal protective equipment] that doesn’t have it in the state system,” Cuomo said, The New York Times reported.

Cuomo: ‘We Don’t Need Any Additional Ventilators’ - Daily Caller

“Have we saved everyone?” he asked. “No. But have we lost anyone because we didn’t have a bed or we didn’t have a ventilator, or we didn’t have health care staff? No.”

We already know Cuomo lied about Trump not sending New York ventilators, when in reality, they were wasting away in warehouses:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1243899847394164736

Even with the gross incompetence of the New York government, the U.S. remains in much better shape than most of our European friends. Our infections and deaths per capita are dwarfed by most of the largest countries of Europe.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

If Trump's handling of the outbreak was a failure, then most of Europe's, and the E.U.'s as a whole, was outright criminal.

 

[GNews]

Europe has had this a longer time. The living arrangements are different.

THE US will e a slower spread b/c we have whole yards, acreage to space ourselves. The bigger cities, which are like EUROPE will see the most of the brunt I believe.

Gotta admit. Being at ground zero of the virus in my current country.. Knowing wave of people all of a sudden had 'pnemoia' like illnesses..... i belive I had the corona virus already. I dont think it's a joke at all but as its' said in all the reports.. We know nothing about this disease and the diversity of effects it could be having could be far greater than we think.

It's real though. I'm sure of this. Just be happy you're not in a country where they are trying to cover it all up or not organized enough to give you some decent/realistic stats.. Feels like I'm walking over landmine fields when i go into public here at times.

 

[Stones]

Here s a few choice pieces from this article.

https://off-guardian.org/2020/04/05/covid19-death-figures-a-substantial-over-estimate/

A few weeks ago we reported that, according to the Italian Institute of Health (ISS), only 12% of Italy’s reported Covid19 deaths actually listed Covid19 as the cause of death.

Also reported in the Telegraph.

Essentially, Italy’s death registration process does not differentiate between those who simply have the virus in their body, and those who are actually killed by it.

Germany counts any deceased person who was infected with coronavirus as a Covid19 death, whether or not it actually caused death.

It is important to emphasise that Coronavirus Disease 19, or Covid-19, should be reported for all decedents where the disease caused or is presumed to have caused or contributed to death.

“Presumed to have caused”? “Contributed”? That’s incredibly soft language, which could easily lead to over-reporting.

Deaths “in the community” can be listed as Covid19 deaths without being tested for the disease, or even seen by a doctor at all.

The #filmyourhospital hashtag on twitter makes for some interesting viewing.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1246876076673990657

The number of cases in Sweden is dropping despite them failing to lockdown their population and suicide their population.

 

[CCarter]

Well, well, well. I wrote this a while back and people seemed to push back:

That's odd that our in-house virologist hasn't responded to this... However it takes on average 16-24 MONTHS for a vaccine for this type of virus to just get to clinical trials. In this instances they are attempting to half that, but the earliest humanly possible - which is really pushing the boundaries would be in the Fall of 2020.

In fact a lot of what I wrote can be summed up in an IToldYouSo.jpeg.

But this will suffice: Dr Fauci stated at least 18 months for a vaccine.

I did say it only has less than a 3% mortality rate... and in the USA it is literally holding at less than 3%. Instead everyone wanted to run with the hysteria and ended up destroying the economy - forever.

The BuSO Deep State tried to silence me, sent rogue agents, now the truth is coming out while they sit on their Thrones made of Toilet Paper, 1-ply, cause that’s all the gas station carried. Sitting inside their homes going mad - quarantined from literally the “air”.

How the hell does the Deep State plan on stopping this invisible enemy you might ask?? “Washing their hands.”

Wasn’t I literally stating that over and over already?

The Deep State’s Popeye chicken eating, Toilet Paper hoarding peasantry has been exposed!

Picnics on the beach, wtf is going on here! Get back to work, oh wait 9.9 million jobs lost. Good job folks. Fuck. All you had to do was NOT act crazy.

From Britain to the Golden state - Welcome to the Deep State’s Police State! People are getting $1000 fines for watching the sun set in California. Good job.

You listened to the mainstream media - and now you can’t even walk your dog without looking like you are dressed for a close encounter with an alien life-form. And then people look and get mad at me on the street cause I’m dressed like a normal person, or what used to be normal.

“No I am not going to wear your peasant mask, Alex Jones said Vitamin D.” And that statement befuddles them, cause they can’t tell whether I am being facetious or dead ass.

You wanted this Pandemic - and now you guys got exactly what you wished for.

Here comes the Deep State’s newest agent Comrade Colonel Sanders with your $1200 check - you better switch back to KFC old boys.

Remind me to delete this before the Deep State’s mods wake up.

No but seriously guys - what the fuck?

These peasants are fighting over toilet paper, dressed for alien encounters, the Fed puts interest rates at 0%, and the US Treasury is giving away free money.

Does anyone seriously not think we crossed beyond the point of no return? if an alien ship appeared over New York that wouldn’t even surprise me - cause what’s next? The writers for the April episodes of ‘Murica season 2020 are going to need to top the first 3 months. We still got 9 more months?!? Godzilla is going to come out of the Pacific Rim?! What’s next?

How can you have hope for these people - they were fighting over toilet paper.

If you are a marketer and can’t see how easy it is to sell products/services to these consumers - remember they were fighting over toilet paper.

And if your arguments align or echo the same thing that the people fighting over toilet paper are arguing - you might want to step back and reassess your position.

 

[mj22]

is there even really a BUSO "Deep State"? i thought that was some conspiracy tinfoil hat wearing shit. Maybe im wrong. What is happening up in dis bitch? haha

Is there a BUSO CIA or sumshit happenin? haha

been a while since i been on here, so...

*gets tin foil hat and turns agoraphobic*

I tried to catch it prior the post delivery time when a person can no longer edit shit or id have added this to my post but, removing the like button on this thread is absolutely fucking RE REtarded, dont even make sense to me other than to ignore likes due to public opinion. like, Why else would a person make that unavailable? dont make sense to me unless you wanted to control likes of ppls posts that some butthurts wouldnt like to see in public to try control perception, and honest discussion. i thought only FB did that sort of thing.

must be that buso deep state CIA going on here hahah, luv ya guys.

 

[eliquid]

For those of you hit by this ( business/financially ), I know you don't want to hear this.. but take this as a time to get your house in order.

I am going to be focusing on the financial aspects of this COVID-19 pandemic below.

Learn from this experience about the difference in what is reality, and what is "suppose to be right".

Suppose to be right or good thing:

1. Johnny is self employed and files his taxes early like a good boy and gets it out of the way. Possibly sending in his payment early too. Lets say this is very early Feb. Go Merica and paying your taxes so things are done right.

In reality, the real world:

1. Trump changes law to move tax filing deadline to July 15 and tax payment to July 15th. This was in March.
   
   
2. Corona hysteria hits, Johnny loses a lot of clients and has no cash flow/revenue coming in.
   
   
3. Johnny could have held on to his payment he sent to the IRS to help him during this time some. But that is gone now and not able to help him. So much for being a good little cog/sheep...
   
   
4. Johnny goes to file for unemployment, but his states website wont let him because is he self employed ( this IS happening right now still, in some states ). He can't file at all even though he is suppose to because his state hasn't updated their website and is behind and their systems run on a 60 year old programming language ( COBOL ). Who knows when Johnny will be able to file or get access to cash.
   
   
5. Johnny files for EIDL to get the $10k advancement that is forgiven. It is suppose to come in 3 days and will help him. But it's been 2 weeks now and nothing. SBA later changes the EIDL to only $1k per employee. Since Johnny only employs himself, he is only eligible now for $1k and not $10k potentially and who knows when it is coming. $1k doesn't even cover his health insurance premium monthly.
   
   
6. What's Johnny to do? He could file PPP, but many banks are messing this up left and right. Again, no access to cash quickly.

On the flip side, Johnny could have waited to file his taxes. Delayed it. However he didn't know Feb 2nd this was all going to go down.

But lets pretend he did wait and not file. Now the situation flips to this:

• Johnny held on to his money and didn't file for 2019 yet.
  
  
• Johnny uses his money to feed his family and pay his bills, but this is a trap setting himself up for doom come July 15th when this money has to be paid to the Feds but he doesn't have it since he spent it on food and essentials.
  
  
• Johnny still is waiting on unemployment site to work for him and the EIDL for $1k hasn't came yet.
  
  
• Johnny is able to finally get to the PPP application and fill it out... this should save him. But the bank asks for his 2019 tax filings to prove his salary. WAIT, he waited to file this because of the July 15th extension. Now he can't even file for PPP which could maybe save him and his family. So he rushes around at the last minute trying to get his CPA or bookkeeper to help him file his 2019 taxes just to get the PPP. But he is at the mercy of his CPA who is off or his bookkeeper who is sick or not replying to emails atm. Maybe the cap of $350B runs out before Johnny can get in the queue and get his money before his CPA can help him. So much for the waiting...

Right now large corporations are getting free money left and right. Happened to banks and auto manuf. roughly 10-11 years ago, happening again right now. But small businesses are expected to basically go into debt with loans to survive.

There is talk about bailing out the OIL industry because not enough people are driving. Really? Bail out the oil industry?

A lot of people try to do good and do what's right. But they get stomped on in times like these. Even in normal prior daily life, it was going on.

You got to know what is reality folks.

And thinking about what is reality and future planning during this time is what is going to transform you 5-10 years from now. Things aren't going to change for YOU unless you win the lotto and become a huge mega corp industry titan like Chase Bank, GMC, Shell.. etc. Let's face it, that prob AINT happening.

So what can you do looking into the future to protect and set yourself up for 5-10 years from now?

That's what you need to be thinking about in all aspects of your life right now.

I've got a podcast on SERPWoo from 2016 that while it doesn't solve this for you, goes into some thinking about it..

Predicting The Future In Your Business

.

 

[bernard]

1-ply toilet paper is for peasents, I wipe my ass with the finest left wing newspapers money can buy. Expensive, but I'm happy to help them stay in operation, in these critical times.

 

[CCarter]

Commandant Comrade Colonel Sanders has dropped out of the race after I put him on blast last night. Oops, must’ve been a coincidence

 

[bernard]

Bernie, change the system, by always surrendering to it, Sanders.

It's quite interesting that the 3 candidates it came down to would be in serious trouble if they got the virus. Which means the running mate is once again important. Maybe Biden picks that Cortez chick. I'd watch that.

 

[mj22]

Covid-19 2020 = Got TP?

 

[Marko]

eliquid sir, this has been a great lessons but, with the risk of sound too stupid, I have to ask what's the best scenario out of the two? I'd say 1 but it's still not clear after reading... I'd love more of these lessons, need to learn economics fast

For those of you hit by this ( business/financially ), I know you don't want to hear this.. but take this as a time to get your house in order.

I am going to be focusing on the financial aspects of this COVID-19 pandemic below.

Learn from this experience about the difference in what is reality, and what is "suppose to be right".

 

[eliquid]

eliquid sir, this has been a great lessons but, with the risk of sound too stupid, I have to ask what's the best scenario out of the two? I'd say 1 but it's still not clear after reading... I'd love more of these lessons, need to learn economics fast

From my experience of several ups and downs as both an employee and business owner, of being poor and being not poor.. here is how I see it.

ALWAYS no matter what, focus on reality. What the reality is and how you have experienced it and seen it. Nothing else matters.

As far as which 2 options for reality in my story was the best...

Holding on to cash the longest you can is the better option. Both options suck honestly, but whenever you can hold on to your cash in your hand the longest, is the better choice given all other things are the same. So it would have been the option where he waited to file and kept holding his cash longer.

 

[Philip J. Fry]

If Trump's handling of the outbreak was a failure, then most of Europe's, and the E.U.'s as a whole, was outright criminal.

You compared the US's deaths/million rate with other country's death/million rate. You did not mentioned how the US's test/million rate is much lower than San marino, Spain, Italy, Belgium, Switzerland, Luxembourg, or Ireland. You also left out how countries like Germany prepared tests before hand, in January, a month before the virus even came to Germany.

Is the US the worse country in terms of how we handled COVID-19? No but it's not exemplary either.

IMO, we should strive for excellence, not better than the worst.

Czechia actually handled the pandemic very well and a death rate of 12 per million, 1/3rd of the US's. Here's how they handled it. Please note how the method was calm, peaceful, caring, and, most of all, effective.

From my experience of several ups and downs as both an employee and business owner, of being poor and being not poor.. here is how I see it.

ALWAYS no matter what, focus on reality. What the reality is and how you have experienced it and seen it. Nothing else matters.

As far as which 2 options for reality in my story was the best...

Holding on to cash the longest you can is the better option. Both options suck honestly, but whenever you can hold on to your cash in your hand the longest, is the better choice given all other things are the same. So it would have been the option where he waited to file and kept holding his cash longer.

Johnny should have been a smart boy and paid his quarterly estimated taxes for 2019 so that he didn't have to make a huge lump sum payment for his 2019 tax return as well as pay the 3% interest for underpayment of estimated taxes

How can you have hope for these people - they were fighting over toilet paper.

If you are a marketer and can’t see how easy it is to sell products/services to these consumers - remember they were fighting over toilet paper.

And if your arguments align or echo the same thing that the people fighting over toilet paper are arguing - you might want to step back and reassess your position.

Interesting world view CCarter. In this thread you said "Reach out to contacts you haven't talked to in a long time and strike up a conversation. Not only can you catch up but see if they have a project or an idea that you could help out with. I suggest talking to high net-worth individuals for this."

If you look down at consumers for simply existing, how would those high net worth individuals think of you, if you reach out to them?

 

[BCN]

Cases vs deaths aren't that interesting of a number; one is further ahead than the other one. Typically you don't die instantly.

You need to examine closed cases: how many died and how many survived, not how many died VS how many got infected and might die or survive. It's just a meaningless number. There are two outcomes, you die or survive, and you need to give it enough time to play out.

The UK, Spain, and Italy all had low death rates to start.

You don't compare airline crashes vs trips booked, but you compare them to successful flights. You're dealing with two different time frames. You're also not calculating the converting leads you bought a week ago with your ad spend today.

You don't calculate your CR with last week's leads and today's clicks. It's equally meaningless, all though you could make your CR and ROAS look amazing. But it's not real or significant. You can manicure any numbers and stats however you want, big companies do it with their books all the time with internal billing to either lower or increase profit.

At hospitals here, there are almost no new cases. Just old cases dying or surviving, but deaths are still high. Lots of people yet to die or survive.

In the US you still have a million + people that are yet to be "processed", even if you eliminated all new infections overnight.

 

[eliquid]

Johnny should have been a smart boy and paid his quarterly estimated taxes for 2019 so that he didn't have to make a huge lump sum payment for his 2019 tax return as well as pay the 3% interest for underpayment of estimated taxes

What about this situation is smart though? Think about it for a long time before you answer.

If you have the money set aside, the issue of making 1 "huge" lump sum vs 4 smaller breakouts is a non-issue. So the only issue one could claim is really the 3%.

Example:
1. You have a CPA give you your "estimates" for a tax year ahead of time ( I've had this done to me ).

Basically you making $100k payments each quarter to the government. You can find much better uses for that money and the 3% penalty you pay can very much be worth the cost in what you get back out of it by having a huge lump sum of money in Q3 and Q4 of that same year to "make larger investments" you otherwise wouldn't have had if you give up money in Q1 and Q2 of that year.

2. OR LETS SAY you figure it up every quarter instead of "ahead" estimates. You make a lot in Q1 and Q2 and send that payment in. Business goes down in Q3 and Q4 due to, I dont know.. anything like COVID-19. The money you sent in Q1 and Q2 could have helped you in this cashflow issue of Q3 and Q4, but you can't get it now until you file next year potentially and everything shakes out.

Having money on hand is the smart thing. In both examples above holding on was the smart thing even if you have to pay a nominal fee for it. Most times if you do it right, you won't be paying much, if any, in 3% doing things properly.

You pay a tiny fee for much larger gains holding on to your money, if you're smart and proactive. Most people are not however.

If you are giving up your money every quarter, you aren't being very smart with you money later in the year and possibly losing out in opportunities later on you could have done if they present themselves.

Don't make a habit of putting yourself in situations where you could lose out, just because you tied up money earlier in the year or were scared of some min. penalty fee that would equal just about nothing if done right.

Remember, these are "estimates" after all. Use that to your advantage.

.

I ran out of time to edit, but wanted to add too that you could "lower" the 3% fee somewhat by simply moving the huge lump sum ( as you get it ) to somewhere like Ally Bank ( or some other higher interest earning account ).

As of this time, their savings account is 1.50%. American Express has a 1.70% atm it seems too.

I've seen it higher in the past ( at Ally, I have an account with them ), but if you simply did NOTHING with the money at all put aside, you would wipe out a portion of the 3% fee alone with the money sitting in another bank until you need it.

That's just IF you did nothing at all with the money, which is what I do not suggest, but making the min. argument here. I would still use it to "invest" or buy another asset with it though personally, but just saying if you did nothing bc of some incident prevented you from it.

There are other creative ways to offset it too or remove it entirely. Too many to really post in this thread about.

But just considering this "move" and what you would gain from it, you can't get money in a loan that cheap ( in most normal ways people get loans that is ) and you have immediate access to it without having to get approved for a loan.

Never tie up your money until you absolutely have to.

 

[Philip J. Fry]

What about this situation is smart though? Think about it for a long time before you answer.

If you have the money set aside, the issue of making 1 "huge" lump sum vs 4 smaller breakouts is a non-issue. So the only issue one could claim is really the 3%.

Example:
1. You have a CPA give you your "estimates" for a tax year ahead of time ( I've had this done to me ).

Basically you making $100k payments each quarter to the government. You can find much better uses for that money and the 3% penalty you pay can very much be worth the cost in what you get back out of it by having a huge lump sum of money in Q3 and Q4 of that same year to "make larger investments" you otherwise wouldn't have had if you give up money in Q1 and Q2 of that year.

2. OR LETS SAY you figure it up every quarter instead of "ahead" estimates. You make a lot in Q1 and Q2 and send that payment in. Business goes down in Q3 and Q4 due to, I dont know.. anything like COVID-19. The money you sent in Q1 and Q2 could have helped you in this cashflow issue of Q3 and Q4, but you can't get it now until you file next year potentially and everything shakes out.

Having money on hand is the smart thing. In both examples above holding on was the smart thing even if you have to pay a nominal fee for it. Most times if you do it right, you won't be paying much, if any, in 3% doing things properly.

You pay a tiny fee for much larger gains holding on to your money, if you're smart and proactive. Most people are not however.

If you are giving up your money every quarter, you aren't being very smart with you money later in the year and possibly losing out in opportunities later on you could have done if they present themselves.

Don't make a habit of putting yourself in situations where you could lose out, just because you tied up money earlier in the year or were scared of some min. penalty fee that would equal just about nothing if done right.

Remember, these are "estimates" after all. Use that to your advantage.

.

I ran out of time to edit, but wanted to add too that you could "lower" the 3% fee somewhat by simply moving the huge lump sum ( as you get it ) to somewhere like Ally Bank ( or some other higher interest earning account ).

As of this time, their savings account is 1.50%. American Express has a 1.70% atm it seems too.

I've seen it higher in the past ( at Ally, I have an account with them ), but if you simply did NOTHING with the money at all put aside, you would wipe out a portion of the 3% fee alone with the money sitting in another bank until you need it.

That's just IF you did nothing at all with the money, which is what I do not suggest, but making the min. argument here. I would still use it to "invest" or buy another asset with it though personally, but just saying if you did nothing bc of some incident prevented you from it.

There are other creative ways to offset it too or remove it entirely. Too many to really post in this thread about.

But just considering this "move" and what you would gain from it, you can't get money in a loan that cheap ( in most normal ways people get loans that is ) and you have immediate access to it without having to get approved for a loan.

Never tie up your money until you absolutely have to.

You're advocating that people should place their Estimated Tax payments in savings accounts, where they earn a +2% interest, for the remainder of the year (lets call this Year 1) and then pay the 3% fee at the beginning of the next year (lets call this Year 2), because they are then able to seize opportunities throughout Year 1, with that capital.

What happens if the opportunities fails and the capital is lost? The individual is still liable Year 1 taxes. Come Q1 Year 2, that person will be scrambling to: 1.) earn enough to live during Q1 Year 2 2.) earn enough to pay for Year 1's taxes and 3.) If they would like to learn their lesson, pay Q1 Year 2's Estimated Taxes, which is due the same day as tax day.

I'd take peace of mind over hoped for opportunities any day. Then again, I don't do media buy and it looks like your mindset is based from ad buys.

Like we've talked about in previous threads, it is what you want to do with your life. If you want to earn a lot of money, go ahead. I'd rather have peace of mind, tranquility, and a stable financial situation. In fact, when I pay my estimated taxes, it comes from my LLC's checking account as an owner's withdrawal. That money wasn't going to be touched by me, personally, anyways.

Anyways, I'm guessing you're very satisfied with the later tax due date

 

[eliquid]

You're advocating that people should place their Estimated Tax payments in savings accounts, where they earn a +2% interest, for the remainder of the year (lets call this Year 1) and then pay the 3% fee at the beginning of the next year (lets call this Year 2), because they are then able to seize opportunities throughout Year 1, with that capital.

What happens if the opportunities fails and the capital is lost? The individual is still liable Year 1 taxes. Come Q1 Year 2, that person will be scrambling to: 1.) earn enough to live during Q1 Year 2 2.) earn enough to pay for Year 1's taxes and 3.) If they would like to learn their lesson, pay Q1 Year 2's Estimated Taxes, which is due the same day as tax day.

I'd take peace of mind over hoped for opportunities any day. Then again, I don't do media buy and it looks like your mindset is based from ad buys.

Like we've talked about in previous threads, it is what you want to do with your life. If you want to earn a lot of money, go ahead. I'd rather have peace of mind, tranquility, and a stable financial situation. In fact, when I pay my estimated taxes, it comes from my LLC's checking account as an owner's withdrawal. That money wasn't going to be touched by me, personally, anyways.

Anyways, I'm guessing you're very satisfied with the later tax due date

You must be either:

1. Young.
2. New to big money/taxes.
3. Not experienced a lot of business years/situations/upturns and downturns to see what I'm saying.


I'm going to make this real simple, so anyone pointing out "what ifs" please remember I'm making this simple for a reason. Im going to use a flat tax of 30%, so please don't point out the tier I missed in the tax calcs.

Year 1:
Q1 - Make net of $100k, would owe $30k. Only pocket $70k
Q2 - Make another net of $100k, would owe another $30k. Only pocket $70k, total of $140k
Q3 - Make another net of $100k, would owe another $30k. Only pocket $70k, total of $210k
Q4 - Make another net of $100k, would owe another $30k. Only pocket $70k, total of $280k

^^ that's if I followed your logic or paying the estimates on time. Using simple math and no what ifs.

I paid in $120k to the government and kept $280k for myself.

Now lets do this, how you could have done it. Lets assume it stayed in all year so we don't have to break this down in excel for bank interest. I would like to save myself a few minute to show it "simply".

Year 1:
Q1 - Make net of $100k, don't do Q1 payment, move full amount to Ally Bank at 1.5% at simplistic sake = 1,500.00
Q2 - Make another net of $100k, don't do Q2 payment, move full amount to Ally Bank at 1.5% at simplistic sake = 1,500.00, so a total of $3k now extra
Q3 - Make another net of $100k, don't do Q1 payment, move full amount to Ally Bank at 1.5% at simplistic sake = 1,500.00, so a total of $4.5k now extra
Q4 - Make another net of $100k, don't do Q1 payment, move full amount to Ally Bank at 1.5% at simplistic sake = 1,500.00, so a total of $6k now extra

Yes I know it wouldnt be $6000 because of the length of compounding per Q, but again I said I wanted to keep this simple for NOW.

I do nothing with the money at all, because Im dumb or forget or something happens like COVID-19 and I miss out or can not find opportunities.

So I pay the 3% tax penalty. The penalty is on the $30k per Q. So $30k x 4Qs is $120k.

$120k x 3% is $3600.

However, on my interest I made $6k. Sure I will pay tax on the $6k gain too, but that's $1800 which still puts me $600 ahead than if I made the estimates payment on time.

And $600 at that level really isn't worth it. ALSO YES I KNOW the bank interest would not tally up to the full yearly amount on Q2 and Q3 and Q4, but Im trying to make this simple. At worse case I would have covered my penalty or paid a few measly hundred dollars to do it this way instead.

So what did I gain though?

Access to my money/liquidity for future opportunities where I can invest or purchase a money making asset and pay no interest on a loan I would have maybe had to use from a bank to make the same purchase.

Why?

Lets say an opportunity comes up Dec 3rd. I can buy an ecommerce site on Flippa. I already have 2 running in the same niche and now I can buy up my competitor. Let's say this site is $100k to buy.

In your example, where you gonna get that $100k from?

Maybe from your personal savings, money you already paid tax on. But after living expenses and other things you did in the year, you might not have $100k after tax to purchase this. We don't know. But we can't play what if's that you live a super frugal life and cut coupons and DO have it...

PRE Tax money you only have $30k maybe ( Q4 ) that you haven't paid yet so maybe you go to the bank and take a loan out for $70k at 4-7% which is more than the 3% for tax penalty ( which is really going to be zero because of the Ally bank interest )

OR you can use PRE TAX money.. the money that would have been Q1, Q2, Q3, Q4 sitting at Ally zero'ing out your future 3% tax penalty if this deal falls through, and use what would have been your tax payments.

I buy the ecommerce site with my $120k from Q1, Q2, Q3, Q4 and spend $100k of it. Leaving me with $20k of what would have been my tax penalty. I pay 3% on that $20k which is $600.

$600 is worth what I just did.

And yeah, I know there is some issues like, I would have used some of the $100k per Q for my salary and living expenses, etc. But Im trying to make this simple here. You could always leave the money at Ally full time and take out what you need to live on so it can collect as much interest as possible.

This has nothing to do with "buying ads". This is how any situation would work. Depending on some things, you may need to depreciate over time capital assets/expenses. But each situation is different and each year's tax code is different. In my example, you would more than likely have to depreciate the buying of the ecommerce site, but in many other examples you may be able to purchase a lot of "goods" for an existing ecommerce business and not depreciate.

My example is not the only way, its just the example I used. Maybe you buy extra "widgets" all year at a huge discount from your competitor that is going out of business or you use the money in another way you don't have to "depreciate". The fact is, you have money you can use that doesn't really cost you anything if you plan it out right.

Don't take my example as the holy truth. It was just an example. Each person's need will be different, but even with depreciation over years, you can still win long term because your buying assets that will pay off over the long term anyways.

As far as your comment about "what if it fails", you can't go by that. ANY business can fail at any time. If this was someone's judgement point, they would never enter into any business, like real estate to student housing near colleges.

You buy an asset because it produces money. You don't buy an asset that is failing. You run your numbers and do your due diligence, just like in buying a home for RE.

If it fails in 3 months, you aren't scrambling to come up with that money like in your example.. your tax was lowered so if it failed I would only be scrambling to come up with like $600 or so. Again, I know I might need to do depreciation on MY example, but in others your tax bill was lowered already so you aren't scrambling to come up with that same lump sum in Q1 the next year because it was already wrote off as an expense.

I am also not advocating that people should place their Estimated Tax payments in savings accounts like you mentioned. Im advocating that people should realize they can put their money to more use than sending it to the government on time, just because that seems to be what other people do.

I always advocate researching yourself and doing what you know. Not what others do and what society tells me I should be doing.

Also, make sure you run your own examples against a CPA or Tax professional. I am not one by trade and my comments are not legal or financial advice for you. Things change all the time in tax law and I suggest you run your situation in your country against someone that is licensed in this area.

.

I just read what I wrote.

Sounds a bit harsh, but wasn't meant like that.

 

[miketpowell]

You must be either:

1. Young.
2. New to big money/taxes.
3. Not experienced a lot of business years/situations/upturns and downturns to see what I'm saying.


I'm going to make this real simple, so anyone pointing out "what ifs" please remember I'm making this simple for a reason. Im going to use a flat tax of 30%, so please don't point out the tier I missed in the tax calcs.

Year 1:
Q1 - Make net of $100k, would owe $30k. Only pocket $70k
Q2 - Make another net of $100k, would owe another $30k. Only pocket $70k, total of $140k
Q3 - Make another net of $100k, would owe another $30k. Only pocket $70k, total of $210k
Q4 - Make another net of $100k, would owe another $30k. Only pocket $70k, total of $280k

^^ that's if I followed your logic or paying the estimates on time. Using simple math and no what ifs.

I paid in $120k to the government and kept $280k for myself.

Now lets do this, how you could have done it. Lets assume it stayed in all year so we don't have to break this down in excel for bank interest. I would like to save myself a few minute to show it "simply".

Year 1:
Q1 - Make net of $100k, don't do Q1 payment, move full amount to Ally Bank at 1.5% at simplistic sake = 1,500.00
Q2 - Make another net of $100k, don't do Q2 payment, move full amount to Ally Bank at 1.5% at simplistic sake = 1,500.00, so a total of $3k now extra
Q3 - Make another net of $100k, don't do Q1 payment, move full amount to Ally Bank at 1.5% at simplistic sake = 1,500.00, so a total of $4.5k now extra
Q4 - Make another net of $100k, don't do Q1 payment, move full amount to Ally Bank at 1.5% at simplistic sake = 1,500.00, so a total of $6k now extra

Yes I know it wouldnt be $6000 because of the length of compounding per Q, but again I said I wanted to keep this simple for NOW.

I do nothing with the money at all, because Im dumb or forget or something happens like COVID-19 and I miss out or can not find opportunities.

So I pay the 3% tax penalty. The penalty is on the $30k per Q. So $30k x 4Qs is $120k.

$120k x 3% is $3600.

However, on my interest I made $6k. Sure I will pay tax on the $6k gain too, but that's $1800 which still puts me $600 ahead than if I made the estimates payment on time.

And $600 at that level really isn't worth it. ALSO YES I KNOW the bank interest would not tally up to the full yearly amount on Q2 and Q3 and Q4, but Im trying to make this simple. At worse case I would have covered my penalty or paid a few measly hundred dollars to do it this way instead.

So what did I gain though?

Access to my money/liquidity for future opportunities where I can invest or purchase a money making asset and pay no interest on a loan I would have maybe had to use from a bank to make the same purchase.

Why?

Lets say an opportunity comes up Dec 3rd. I can buy an ecommerce site on Flippa. I already have 2 running in the same niche and now I can buy up my competitor. Let's say this site is $100k to buy.

In your example, where you gonna get that $100k from?

Maybe from your personal savings, money you already paid tax on. But after living expenses and other things you did in the year, you might not have $100k after tax to purchase this. We don't know. But we can't play what if's that you live a super frugal life and cut coupons and DO have it...

PRE Tax money you only have $30k maybe ( Q4 ) that you haven't paid yet so maybe you go to the bank and take a loan out for $70k at 4-7% which is more than the 3% for tax penalty ( which is really going to be zero because of the Ally bank interest )

OR you can use PRE TAX money.. the money that would have been Q1, Q2, Q3, Q4 sitting at Ally zero'ing out your future 3% tax penalty if this deal falls through, and use what would have been your tax payments.

I buy the ecommerce site with my $120k from Q1, Q2, Q3, Q4 and spend $100k of it. Leaving me with $20k of what would have been my tax penalty. I pay 3% on that $20k which is $600.

$600 is worth what I just did.

And yeah, I know there is some issues like, I would have used some of the $100k per Q for my salary and living expenses, etc. But Im trying to make this simple here. You could always leave the money at Ally full time and take out what you need to live on so it can collect as much interest as possible.

This has nothing to do with "buying ads". This is how any situation would work. Depending on some things, you may need to depreciate over time capital assets/expenses. But each situation is different and each year's tax code is different. In my example, you would more than likely have to depreciate the buying of the ecommerce site, but in many other examples you may be able to purchase a lot of "goods" for an existing ecommerce business and not depreciate.

My example is not the only way, its just the example I used. Maybe you buy extra "widgets" all year at a huge discount from your competitor that is going out of business or you use the money in another way you don't have to "depreciate". The fact is, you have money you can use that doesn't really cost you anything if you plan it out right.

Don't take my example as the holy truth. It was just an example. Each person's need will be different, but even with depreciation over years, you can still win long term because your buying assets that will pay off over the long term anyways.

As far as your comment about "what if it fails", you can't go by that. ANY business can fail at any time. If this was someone's judgement point, they would never enter into any business, like real estate to student housing near colleges.

You buy an asset because it produces money. You don't buy an asset that is failing. You run your numbers and do your due diligence, just like in buying a home for RE.

If it fails in 3 months, you aren't scrambling to come up with that money like in your example.. your tax was lowered so if it failed I would only be scrambling to come up with like $600 or so. Again, I know I might need to do depreciation on MY example, but in others your tax bill was lowered already so you aren't scrambling to come up with that same lump sum in Q1 the next year because it was already wrote off as an expense.

I am also not advocating that people should place their Estimated Tax payments in savings accounts like you mentioned. Im advocating that people should realize they can put their money to more use than sending it to the government on time, just because that seems to be what other people do.

I always advocate researching yourself and doing what you know. Not what others do and what society tells me I should be doing.

Also, make sure you run your own examples against a CPA or Tax professional. I am not one by trade and my comments are not legal or financial advice for you. Things change all the time in tax law and I suggest you run your situation in your country against someone that is licensed in this area.

.

There are many risks you are overlooking here though.

That being said, for any other bills, I'd agree with you, Jason.

For taxes, I do not. Once you make the money, the taxes have to be paid, the government will forgive waive interest/fees but never the original amount owed. Sure you can hold onto the money to try to make other things happen and just pay the fees, but if shit goes wrong you WILL have to pay that money someday. It's not a bank or credit loan you can actually never pay and go bankrupt.

A friend of mine has a 2018 tax bill he has been slow-paying. "I can use the money so much better for this other stuff why it's better just to pay the extra interest/fees" - now he cannot get the SBA money because he owes some back taxes while my company is getting a free 6 figures out of this.

There are a few creditors I don't fuck around with; the government, merchant accounts, and Paypal. Owing any of those 3 money can seriously fuck you.

 

[Philip J. Fry]

I'm going to make this real simple, so anyone pointing out "what ifs" please remember I'm making this simple for a reason. Im going to use a flat tax of 30%, so please don't point out the tier I missed in the tax calcs.

Year 1:
Q1 - Make net of $100k, would owe $30k. Only pocket $70k
Q2 - Make another net of $100k, would owe another $30k. Only pocket $70k, total of $140k
Q3 - Make another net of $100k, would owe another $30k. Only pocket $70k, total of $210k
Q4 - Make another net of $100k, would owe another $30k. Only pocket $70k, total of $280k

^^ that's if I followed your logic or paying the estimates on time. Using simple math and no what ifs.

I paid in $120k to the government and kept $280k for myself.

Now lets do this, how you could have done it. Lets assume it stayed in all year so we don't have to break this down in excel for bank interest. I would like to save myself a few minute to show it "simply".

Year 1:
Q1 - Make net of $100k, don't do Q1 payment, move full amount to Ally Bank at 1.5% at simplistic sake = 1,500.00
Q2 - Make another net of $100k, don't do Q2 payment, move full amount to Ally Bank at 1.5% at simplistic sake = 1,500.00, so a total of $3k now extra
Q3 - Make another net of $100k, don't do Q1 payment, move full amount to Ally Bank at 1.5% at simplistic sake = 1,500.00, so a total of $4.5k now extra
Q4 - Make another net of $100k, don't do Q1 payment, move full amount to Ally Bank at 1.5% at simplistic sake = 1,500.00, so a total of $6k now extra

Yes I know it wouldnt be $6000 because of the length of compounding per Q, but again I said I wanted to keep this simple for NOW.

I do nothing with the money at all, because Im dumb or forget or something happens like COVID-19 and I miss out or can not find opportunities.

So I pay the 3% tax penalty. The penalty is on the $30k per Q. So $30k x 4Qs is $120k.

$120k x 3% is $3600.

However, on my interest I made $6k. Sure I will pay tax on the $6k gain too, but that's $1800 which still puts me $600 ahead than if I made the estimates payment on time.

And $600 at that level really isn't worth it. ALSO YES I KNOW the bank interest would not tally up to the full yearly amount on Q2 and Q3 and Q4, but Im trying to make this simple. At worse case I would have covered my penalty or paid a few measly hundred dollars to do it this way instead.

So what did I gain though?

Access to my money/liquidity for future opportunities where I can invest or purchase a money making asset and pay no interest on a loan I would have maybe had to use from a bank to make the same purchase.

Ally Bank Saver, who saves 100% of net income and does not pay Estimated Taxes
Deposits	$ 100,000	$ 100,000	$ 100,000	$ 100,000
Ending Account Balance	$ 100,000	$ 200,000	$ 300,000	$ 400,000
Interes Earned Per Quarter	$ 373	$ 746	$ 1,119	$ 1,492
Total interest earned for year				$ 3,729

I actually sat down and did the Year 1 calculation for you. Let's assume that the $100,000 deposits are deposited at the end of each quarter. The interest on $100,000 deposited for 12 months, $100,000 deposited for 9 months, $100,000 deposited for 6 months, and $100,000 deposited for 3 months in a 1.5% savings account is $3,729 on April 1st of the following year. After paying the 3% penalty ($3,600), this scenario will make a profit of $129.

This assumes a 100% savings rate, which is impossible. Also, this doesn't take into account inflation. The inflation rate is -3%; so, the Ally savings account is actually making -1.5% and the underpayment penalty is actually -6% of last year's money. It's just better to pay the Government its money.

As @miketpowell stated, I wouldn't mess with the US Government either. I have a friend who, in 2007, got divorced. He had a wife, two kids, and a mortgage. He had to pay child support and alimony to the ex-wife. In 2009, he got a 6 figure job as a Database Administrator.

For the first time, he was paid as a 1099-MISC contractor. His tax payments were not automatically withheld, like a W-2 Employee, and he did not know about Estimated Taxes. When it came time to pay his taxes in 2010, he didn't have enough money saved up to pay for it. It took him 5 years of working two six-figure jobs to be able to pay his 2009 taxes. This was because he still had to pay his child support, his alimony, and his mortgage.

That dude was a high-income, modern day slave during those 5 years.

Don't be like him. Pay your Estimated Taxes. It'll save you a lot of trouble.